If you’re really interested in this topic, you should get your hands on a copy of The Spirit Level: Why More Equal Societies Almost Always Do Better by Wilkinson and Pickett.

I found a lot of stuff there; you could go on from there. Originally Posted by Curiosity You’re saying a lot of things Stargate, references please. The way it is now structured and conducted, I cannot see a fix but a dismantling. Originally Posted by Curiosity Originally Posted by Stargate I have gone back to studied Carl Marx and what he said about capitalism and noticed that he mentioned that the system would fail the way it was structured.

I am not giving it more credence than that. If you’re really interested in this topic, you should get your hands on a copy of The Spirit Level: Why More Equal Societies Almost Always Do Better by Wilkinson and Pickett. And how exactly did you come to the conclusion that democracy was started with the idea of minority rule? Are you willing to provide examples of the flaws?

Human greed is what capitalism is based on :/ at least it’s a constant. You’re saying a lot of things Stargate, references please. The inequitable distribution is the main problem. That made zero sense.

But sooner or later, they’ll run out of (enough) impoverished, uneducated populations to exploit in the traditional capitalist fashion and they’ll have to rethink it from the ground up. The reason I came to that conclusion is mainly the human factor of greed. And please, provide some example of how the middle class is diminishing? So the employers/ capitalists simply move their activities to countries which don’t protect workers or the environment nor do they pay adequate wages. The question I asked myself was about the value system and the greed factor.

Adelady, I am not totally in agreement with all of what Marx said, I am in agreement that the way it is now is untenable. If some of the countries that provide the raw materials that drive the wealth of the economies were equitable rewarded and the further distribution were balanced, we could maybe have a system that could at least be fixed. The system itself might not be such a bad one if the masses were considered in the equation of distribution.

Does Marx indicate anywhere that he could envisage a political-economic arrangement like China currently operates? I certainly can’t think of any relevant idea or passage in his writings. In general “I got google hits” is a poor way to support an argument, because you can find anything on Google, no matter how bad/flawed/fictional it is. Bartering is a bit more complex but offers a better value and very important to note is, the value component is less vulnerable to infiltration. Only a bit – and only after the Great Depression made the flaws obvious.

If you’re really interested in this topic, you should get your hands on a copy of The Spirit Level: Why More Equal Societies Almost Always Do Better by Wilkinson and Pickett.For a bit of a taste, here’s Richard Wilkinson’s talk on the topic. The signing of contracts was made between corporations and people. Who said we need to fix capitalism? And how exactly did you come to the conclusion that democracy was started with the idea of minority rule?

Are you willing to provide examples of the flaws? I will start a new tread to explain what I meant with that statement about democracy.In response to the statements I made about capitalist. In the above example, the result would be that no one would use pencils and all those workers would be out of a job.

For a bit of a taste, here’s Richard Wilkinson’s talk on the topic. Only a bit – and only after the Great Depression made the flaws obvious. So the employers/ capitalists simply move their activities to countries which don’t protect workers or the environment nor do they pay adequate wages.

I would think a system built on fair exchange would be something to think about. The corporations were always in bold letters (Capitalists) and the people in small letters. If corporation A is selling a bucket of rocks and corporation B is selling a laptop computer, they will not be sold for equal amounts in a capitalistic system – because people value laptops more than they value buckets of rocks. From the fact that you’re simply saying ‘capitalism is untenable’ and have no good substitute for it, you may as well be complaining about how oxygen kills us, and how it’s no good.

Lots of them keep on trying to go back to pre-depression approaches in advanced economies. The developing and underdeveloped nations must be featured into the system. I have tried to look at some data from other countries and it really is scanty at times.

I tried “bartering systems and modern day bartering, and collected more info.I just gave you a few so you can look them up and see for yourself what you understand.To be truthful I was following what Marx said about the capitalistic system not functioning as presented, and started to study the pattern for myself and noticed that the way capitalism has developed considering the human aspect, makes it impossible to continue that way. I am a capitalist with a CAPITAL C! You are right babe, capitalist are corporations, written with capital letters. It is already here.

What Marx failed to anticipate was that people are adaptable. It’s mainly a feature of English speaking countries – USA, UK, Australia being the frontrunners in this undesirable race. But sooner or later, they’ll run out of (enough) impoverished, uneducated populations to exploit in the traditional capitalist fashion and they’ll have to rethink it from the ground up. I found a lot of stuff there; you could go on from there.

You can’t make people value things according to government rule. Coming from sea traders. Getting back to the point of capitalism, I too see so many flaws in the way it is structured that I can only at least partially agree with Marx’s assessment. There are always going to be likes and dislikes, and more importantly people are going to defend what works for them.

We have a diminishing middle class in most countries and a growing poorer class, where does it end. Lots of them keep on trying to go back to pre-depression approaches in advanced economies. That’s about as fair (at a very basic level) as it gets.The _results_ of that are not equal, however. So they adapted capitalism from the way it was previously structured. It is not going to work if the system is overburdened with the dead weight of the struggling masses.

I might even be wrong in my interpretation. You are not asked to work more than you want to, or spend more than you want to on a product, or required to sell something at any price other than the price you want to sell it at. We have a diminishing middle class in most countries Not really. I can only see problems for the future. Originally Posted by Stargate Curiosity, you asked me for some references.

Originally Posted by babe Originally Posted by Stargate Originally Posted by babe Theatre Arts Whore, married to a CPA and we have built a business with blood, sweat, and tears. Coming from sea traders. Not to digress, but I notice the way democracy started was really on the idea of minority rule, although if one does not look closely, it makes you think it’s about the will of the majority. If the system is to function for people, we have to look at the components that make up the system.

From the fact that you’re simply saying ‘capitalism is untenable’ and have no good substitute for it, you may as well be complaining about how oxygen kills us, and how it’s no good. Originally Posted by Stargate I ascribe wealth to work, even to though How can one ascribe wealth to thought? That would be a hard thing to quantify. Who said we need to fix capitalism? If you forget all the other problems that could be detrimental to its survival, the main one I focus on is the way profit is calculated and above all, human greed.

I went to Google and typed in “The diminishing middle class”. Originally Posted by billvon Originally Posted by Stargate Curiosity, you asked me for some references. It has taken poverty to a place where it is not viable, just too many have not’s.

It’s mainly a feature of English speaking countries – USA, UK, Australia being the frontrunners in this undesirable race. So they adapted capitalism from the way it was previously structured. I have gone back to studied Carl Marx and what he said about capitalism and noticed that he mentioned that the system would fail the way it was structured. Richard Wilkinson: How economic inequality harms societies | Video on TED.com Thank you for the link Adelady.

Originally Posted by adelady I have gone back to studied Carl Marx and what he said about capitalism and noticed that he mentioned that the system would fail the way it was structured. Originally Posted by adelady We have a diminishing middle class in most countries Not really. Likewise, if someone wants a car, they are willing to pay more for it than they are willing to pay for a pencil – because they value those things differently.You can have the government step in and start saying things like “you have to charge the same amount for a car as for a pencil, otherwise it’s not fair to pencil manufacturers!” – but every time that’s been tried, it has failed. I tried that for other countries and picked up some statistics there. I am a capitalist with a CAPITAL C! You are right babe, capitalist are corporations, written with capital letters.

What do you call social policies then, if not considering the masses in the equation of distribution? The countries that provide raw materials, get paid the amount above what they’re willing to accept, and those that buy, get it at the price below their maximum amount, hence, both are better off. Profit goes to those who supply desired goods and services, which make the people supplied better off. Does Marx indicate anywhere that he could envisage a political-economic arrangement like China currently operates?

I certainly can’t think of any relevant idea or passage in his writings. That made zero sense. What do you call social policies then, if not considering the masses in the equation of distribution? The countries that provide raw materials, get paid the amount above what they’re willing to accept, and those that buy, get it at the price below their maximum amount, hence, both are better off.

It reminds me of the monopoly game, just simply no room to land on for the masses. However, from my observation, not just what is written, one has to look at reality and what is said in a different light. I was making a comment on the capital letters. If you look at the disparity in terms of development, I cannot see how this will be viable if you look at third world nations.

Some of what you posted does not seem to be supportable (like “capitalists are corporations” and the poor are getting poorer) – thus the request to see if there was any actual support for those statements. Systems are systems; one cannot base the functioning of a system on anything less than law essay writing service uk
on people. Well my take is still much the same as before on the equitable distribution on all levels. And please, provide some example of how the middle class is diminishing? Curiosity, you asked me for some references. I went to Google and typed in “The diminishing middle class”.

Capitalism is a system built on fair and free exchange. I read that the laws governing trade were trade laws of the sea. What Marx failed to anticipate was that people are adaptable. I think you must do a lot of research; your links are always very informative and covers the right areas most times. Capitalism is a system built on profit and greed.

I was quite impressed with the data. Richard Wilkinson: How economic inequality harms societies | Video on TED.com As you know there are so many studies done and so many different angles, sometimes the data is incorrect and only first world nations are more studies in depth. I tried “poor third world nations”, and picked up something there.

Originally Posted by Stargate Originally Posted by babe Theatre Arts Whore, married to a CPA and we have built a business with blood, sweat, and tears.

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